July 28, 2009 Weekly meeting

posted Jul 28, 2009, 1:05 PM by Unknown user   [ updated Jul 29, 2009, 4:32 AM by theresa@projectvolunteering.net ]
Present: tau, daan, lucian, Manuel,fabio,nathalie,theresa,vicky,paul

Jade complained that the lights are often on. We can only try our best, there is no easy way to get people who do not care about it to do it. Keep talking about it.

Tau paid the rent, we are ok. Next month Jade will pay.
Seriously, Tau and Paul, Naomi and Jade have paid. Theresa and Lucian might have paid rent.
Lucian proposes that we kick out the person who paid the least amount of rent each month. This would probably lead to less stress getting the correct amount.
Kidding aside, it sucks we have such problems. We have more problems than when there were only 6 people. We could consider to have it by the 15th.
Deposit sucks, nobody has contributed extra since the start. 6 people split 4000 euros, which is partially refundable.Its not manditory, but it shows a different level of commitment and care. If you dont have the money, you could consider borrow it from somebody who paid, changing it from unfair to a loan.
Its nice to be flexible about staying or not, with the stability of being able to come back. Lucian says only the 6 have taken care of the stability. Theresa proposes 200 euro mandatory deposit, plus 50 euro non refundable for machines, maintenance. Tau agrees. Can we do it in august? Is it again the mission? Maybe more than one month? It could eliminate peple who want to be here because they dont have money for something?

After 1 week we expect a donation, which we clearly comunicate on the first day.This is a point we did not talk about enough and there are some problems with it - Are we saying that we expect a donation after the first week? That is news to me -Note by Lucian After one month, before the next, we choose to accept someone for the next month and arrange deposit. i agree we need to clarify on this point. i thought is was after two weeks etc. it is complicated so perhaps we can brainstorm a bit and discuss more. -comment by theresa
This complicates everything, especially because we have to talk about it.

The simple solution would just be equal rent,equal deposit. Timmy agrees, but doesnt want to pay more when there are less people. Instead fixed piece of pie, eg 230.

Sebastian seems to have pulled a Robinson Crusoe on us. We do not know when he will be back, maybe mid August. We dont know if we cant count on him.

We should know long before when people come and go, because it helps stability.

Trying to bring together the rent issue:  We love flexibility (of traveling whenever we want) and we love stability (to come back to a place that stil exists). However if nobody know if they will be here the next month nobody knows if the rent will be made. That is hardly a solid ground to build on.
Assuming that individuals wanting to participate in this project will assume full responsibility for it (including paying rent) we tried for the past 6 months a partly anonymous donation model. Everbody could donate whatever they felt possible as long as the rent was made. The point was that we should not compare to each other but try to figure out a right amount for us and for the group, based on what we can offer and knowing what needs to be made and with less short term pressure. This idea has the pro that we can easily support people who have less money but give a lot of themselves to the project. Ideally (and it happended at least once) we pass the egg around, people write some numbers, we make even a bit more then the rent while there is, sometimes, a significant difference between the numbers. While we did have some great experiences (eg: Jill, Elodie, Fabio) it left us discussing rent more and more putting out a feeling of insecurity on the one hand and a feeling of lack of commitment since nobody jumped in to share the initial payments needed to rent and use the place. Moreover, making the montly rent became a long, emotionally exhausting process with several meetings and a lot of doubt along with more pressure.
For me this is a disappointment. We have to come up now with rules that are essentially meant to prove that people commit themselves to building something together, that enjoy the working togethe, being together more then partying. It is not understandable for me how people who claim are enthusiastic about this place support it so little (and rent is just one of the items where one can see that). I hear it is human nature to which I have to answer that we're trying here to be against human nature in a few respects (eg. Assuming people are friends before we meet them) so we could try to be against cheapness at least when we think something is valuable. We could learn a lot on this point from our guests who have contributed significantly.
I disagree that having the rent issue out of the way by setting a fixed rent is going to be helpful for how we want to live. I also am interested in ways to keep the possibility of exception (by general agreement I guess) for people who have little money but we are very excited to have. (It is sad to me that a fixed rent is 'out of the way' and a rent-at-will is a major issue). While I'm not sure at all setting a fixed rent (+deposit) is the solution I am willing to try it to see what happens.- note by Lucian

Nicoilona walk in and eveyone is really happy.

For the bathroom we wait for the Hausverwaltung

Actionable items.

From the people present, there seems to be a strong consensus for a fixed rent. PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT HERE, DISCUSS ON THIS FORUM

Swedish people are not here, like they said. Do they have a reason? If Ula does not want the guest, why would we want to have them?

If you have friends that want to stay here, and youre not here, there is no guarantee, on the basis that you dont know whats going on here. If you do it, both the guest should introduce themselves, as well as the friend should vouch for him.

Also, this house is under quarantine which is great because we get to clean, wash, vacuum, everything as never before. I doubt it is responsible to have guests at this time. - note by Lucian 
Also, you should check out casa robino
I did check it out and they are working on Drupal as far as I could see. That implies a hosted domain (seems to be on a slicehost.net IP on a Ubuntu machine). What we could do for now is to try to replicate some of that flexibility on our platform. Just to start the discussion we have a lot more flexibility once you are on the platform (essentially you can create complete new sites and projects, and everybody can work a lot on each page if needed) but less flexibility interacting with possible lurkers (no automatic way to create an account, etc). note by Lucian


  1. If you dont like the fixed rent, you let your voice be heard within the week
  2. We get into contact with the hausverwalung