Meeting - 14 July 09

USUAL DISCLAIMER: Please scheck that what I typed IS what you said, as I am human and do make mistakes. Typing at the same speed people are talking is not easy!


Thersa, Lucian, Uri, Jade, Paul Brad, Paul Bab, Tau, Daan, Fabio, Naomi, Jake, Avi, Jeremy, Clayton.

Some CSers came late, names not recorded.

1 - People living here, plans for the next few months

Clayton - gone for six weeks from July 20th, after that will be here for three months and three months and so on. Gone for two weeks in October, possibly also for Christmas.

Naomi – Wanted to experience something apart from the normal WG kinda things and likes living here and being friends with so many people. Was going to have us all on CS friends, but wanted to wait until she knew us a bit better so that she could write us nice refernces.

Fabio – Travelling throughout August and then home to Naples for most of September. When he comes back here, he will be studying and has enrolled in a Deutsche Schule.

Tau – Has quit her job! Will work until end of July. In August might be in Ukraine, this will be a last minute decision. Her idea of living here is living her with her friends. Would like to continue this and also to reach some stability where we don't always have to discuss who is living here and why. Thinks there are some problems and that we have to solve them; knows she is impulsive and sometimes angry, but just wants to let others know how she feels.

Jade – has been here three times as a CSer and loved it so, when she moved to Berlin, moved in here and is happy to live here and loves to be with people. Thinks in the furture that she will be involved more concretely in the project. Is also actively looking for a job.

Theresa – Excited to be here for various reasons, and is excited to be with a group who actively like each other, which is unfortunately rare in the world. Feels she is just starting to get to know a fantastic group of people and is looking forward to being so close to so many problems. Has been on her own a lot in the past, so this is a new experience for her. Is also sorting out a visa.

Jake – Still feels ecstatic about it and loves it and how international we are. Even though it makes learning German harder, he loves hearing different languages. It's an excellent colelctive and unlike any of the others he's lived in, due to the closeness and community. He sees massive potential and loves that it's in the middle of Berlin too.

Daan – Leaving 22nd December for Christmas. Possibly for good. Before that may go to Greece in September. Taking a sabbatical so he'll be here but working on personal projects rather than professional ones. Has experienced things that he hasn't expereinced in Belgium. Wishes we awere not so dependant on agreeing.

Thies – really likes the project and likes staying here and lives the concept and has never experienced anything like this in the past. Everyone here is very nice and nice to each other.

Paul Brad – Returning from housesitting in late July, may be travelling in August, also not working any more due to end of project. Not sure about long-term plans as not sure what the status of the project will be in Septermber.

Lucian – Is back from a six week trip and will be starting work aagin next week. Might go in Autumn to a vineyard for harvest for a month or two, but it's not certain. Also to help Theresa learn German.

Lucian also raised the point that he has been a bit ″disappointed″ by the fact that we are here several months and that it still seems to be on survival mode. It has not developed into the interesting project he had envisioned. It seems that, after they moved in, it worked but then went down for a while. In the first month they had the most workshops and that they had a good atmousphere and then there were issues with cleaning and making rent and issues that he had no interest in talking about. Feels that the meetings are a symptom of this: we don't like to spend as much time with each other. Finds this very sad. Says the point of having the framework was that, even if the project is failing, then there is enough stress on making friends, that this is enough. Feels that it's a struggle. Looking forward to friendlier times.


It's still very special because most of the projects don't have the requirement of poeple being friends and what is interesting is that this is unique. Agreed that the point of having guests was one of the ways in which the project would play out.

Question asked: what hasn't happened?

Knew the place here was too small for both social and workshops. Took it as it was a start, while thinking ahead to get a bigger place. Feels we went down to a point where the basics weren't understood and not happening. Documenting hasn't happened. Too much energy wasted

Paul Brad – we need to be more adventurous.

Lucian – not up to basics yet and this is what disappoints. Compared it to a hiking trip he had one once: a difficult path you have to keep your eyes on, despite the beautiful surroundings. Also, if one person gets hurt or makes a mistake, everyone has to come together to help.

Right now, we are not watching the path and this makes it hard for people to see far.

Clayton – prior to getting the place, they had a lot of energy and were meeting almost on a daily basis. A lot of energy has gone into building the place and agrees that we need to pay attention to the basics on our own so that they occur spontaneously. Once we moved in, the default was to rest for a while, but got stuck in a rut and it became a normal living situatoin. Had some trepidation about something that was nothign to be scared of. Very easy to have quick meetings. The best workshops happened because the basics were spontaenously taken care of.

2 Key copies.

Cheap keys maker found by Clayton, issue documented elsewhere.

Tau raised the issue of ringing the bell afer 1am. Tell CSers to get a key if they are going out late from appointed keymakers. We can give them our cellphone numbers as well to ring if they don't have keys. Also, we need to differentiate between PROJECT and HOSTEL when communication initially with CSers before they get a place.

We need to redifine the problem and come up with a solution at the next meeting.

Paul Bab – stop having CSers. Stayed at a place where there were no guests, everyone is a host. Only host people who we think are interesting or who want to contribute to the project. Easier to communicate information and to get guests to contribute something.

3 Limits

Lucian – what's a dealbreaker? A point at which someone says ″no – this is not for me.″ What are the lines whereby we say ″no – I don't want to go further than this.″

Daan – Agression. Something we talked about last meeting. So how do we deal with agression?

Lucain – if you are not friendly – that is a dealbreaker. What would make you NOT want to be a part of the project? Example – he thinks snoring is a dealbreaker. Something that is small but is also a dealbreaker.

Naomi – people just coming here and using the place as a hostel, and not wanting to be a part of the project.

Clayton – Emergency CSers are ok, after all we are maent to be hosting people.

Naomi – People sometimes come here and get invovled, some people just come and take advantage of the project.

Theresa – if they come and don't know about the project is, it says more about the people in the project that didn't explain to them what the project was.

Naomi – We need to take more time with the people who come here and explain what it is.

Clayont – every person you invite should get the impression of what the project IS. Having consideration and telling them what it is and what they can do.

Strauss – Agression – something pretty normal but it can be pretty hard to live here. On the other hand, if there is no agression, it can be strange. Feels that situations will always arise. There is a good way of agression, constructive agression and a bad way of agression.

Lucian – what is contstructive agression?

Example given – being late for meetings, but if you are yelling at someone then it's agression.

Naomi – no one should feel scared of someone. Argueing is different, that's going to happen – you can argue with someone and still love them. But if you threaten someone, that's the line. Also mentioned intimidation.

Theresa – when safety becomes a concent, that's where the line is crossed.

Paul Brad – if someoene is beginging to feel intimiadated or scraed.

Paul Bab – seems to be a lot fo influence on the ″dealbreaker″ a general consensus is needed, but what if there IS no dealbreaker: there is a fundamental difference than can not be resolved.

Lucian – asking for individuals dealbreakers, not just his own. Wants some personal dealbreakers. Also, people uysing the project as a hostel.

Paul Brad– dealbreaker – personal property, started a disussion about art stuff and people moving fragile items around carelessly and not leaving them in once place (didn't reocrd everything that was said here because I was actively involved in the discussion!) Could be resolved by careful labelling and communication, may also be a space issue, time will tell

(afterthought: it shouldn't be a sapce issue: it worked before I moved out)

Tau – to live with people who she does not get along with and understand and who don't understand her.

Catherine (sp?) – Likes to be able to have her own space. Had a previous experience in a living community cricle whereby the person with the issue acts out their issue in a circle and it's then delt with. Sees things changing all the time.,

Clayton – it's an expeiremtnt but it's also his life. Has no dealbreaker, but if people melt away he'll alwyas find them.

Lucian – what about when you come home and you find people doing something that so upsets you that you don't want to be there?

Clayton – a situation whereby people don't care about each other. As long as he's here he has something to offer. Doesn't think that there IS a dealbreaker.

Theresa – wouldn't be appealing if people were not caring about each other.

Jake – agrees with Clayton – a lake of respect is where all collectives start to fail. Core needs to be respect, which it is, we should always remain a community and is glad to be a part of it, is still in contact with all the others and getting along with others and not stagnating is also core. The dealbreaker is when this breaks down.

Daan – Jose would have said: That he didn't want to have to spend half an hour discussing whether or not we get a second fridge when he wanted to learn something different instead.

Jake – meetings also for checking in as well as discussing. Communication has been improving and we have been discussing improvements to the project. They can be draining.

Lucian – Disagrees with the we've come a long way – feels that we're worse than when we were at the beginning. There were no signs of stability of friendship.

Jake – The meetings are getting better.

Various – should we have meetings with just residents, or with everyone else who is staying here, and other people contributing to other people

Lucian – what is the disticintion between people who are living here long term and people who are just passing through.

More meetings? It is intense to have a big meeting with lots of people with varied experience.

Tau - We used to talk every day and it was invigorating, but some people have lives and are just here for the party and the fun.

Clayton – We used to find it easier to take care of day-to-day stuff.

Why is it different now?

Lucian – people not taking responsibilty and not talking to each other. We are not taking care of each other.

Catheine – the larger it gets the harder it gets to keep organised. She mentioned a community called Findhorn in Scotland and how it's gotten but also how they've taken care of the expansion via a core group.

Paul Bab – Mnetioned that the community is based on travel and will also be difficult to stay fluid and to keep people together.

Naomi – As Catherine paid to stay in this eco-village, should we charge money?

Catherine – still don't understand the real goals of the project (activities, ...)

Lucian – the project was working at the beginning, it is just beginning to get chaotic now.

General – is it a CSer number issue?

Naomi – perhaps theer are too many people

Theresa – disagreed, there were 13 people here at one point, but it worked because they spoke to each other

Lucian – it's how we integrate with each other. Numbers are not importaant – it's how people are willing to help. Rules for this and rules for that and caps are just complicating hings.

Naomi – three people cleaning up after everyone while everyone else was drinking beer was a bit disappointing.

Catherina – how can you take care of everyone when energy is spiraling out?

Lucian – we have three rooms reserved for reisdents. This acted as stability for the residents.

Namoi – wants to just spend time with people, gets stressed when there's more and more new people and trying to get to know them all.

Tau – Jake is not listening to people when he keeps taking on more people (I think this is a reference to accperting more guests...?)

Catherine – is taking someone itto the project helpful if it's someone that won't fit in? Is this taking care of people?

Paul Bab – compaint: he had a great experience – got a ride from two Estonians and sent people to here and they were received with a combination of being ignored/rudely experienced. Tau asked soemone for their opinoin, someone (I think Sebastian) said ″don't bother me with this!″ and the Estonains left without being noticed.

Fabio – had a discussion with too many people.

Theresa – it's about accepting people: if you don't have the time then don't make the offer. Be serious about accepting people.

Lucian – it's getting overwhelming with the people who other people are hosting. Also, not to mention the website when inviting someone is outrageous and not informing people about what it is we're doing here. It's our responsibility to mention the site and make sure they're informed.

Jade – when she came, it was a case of making sure that she knew what she was coming to. And she did.

Lucian – we've made it clear (or should be making it clear) that they might not have the usual CS experience.

Catherine – make it clear that it's not just you who was bringing someone in. You are tied to a large group of people.

Paul Brad– should we clarify the website?

Tau – Yes, but has a discussion with them re the website to make sure that they know what the place is like.

Jade - If you get a request the day before it can be difficult to check the website.

Idea – possibily that we should have an applipcation to stay here on our website, not the CS profiles?

If a resident is bored (making the tour of the appartment, ...), then why do he accept Csers?

If we care enough, we have to care of sharing what the project is about, that they are going to sleep in a room with many people, etc.

Jake issue unresoved.

At this point I left due to lateness and being tired, so further comments were undocumented.